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Post by charmedhour on Jun 14, 2023 12:25:52 GMT
I never will either and that sucks pretty badly. I actually know very very few women who are "best friends" with their mothers and the relationship isn't co-dependent ... so there's a part of me that raises an eyebrow when someone is best friends with a parent, but maybe I'm wildly cynical. What do you think would happen if you just didn't reach out to fix things when she was upset? Maybe you can just quietly quit that job and see how that impacts things? I have to agree with you on the mom/bff dynamic. Like I said in the thread- I’m so very lucky to have amazing parents, especially my mom. I always joke she’s not allowed to die because she’s the ride or die. There’s little my mom wouldn’t do for us if it’s in her power to help. All my life she has always said, “I’m your mother not your friend” and it holds true. I love spending time with my mom, as adults we share some common interests (I’m much more like my dad personality wise and interests/hobbies). But I never view her as anything other than my mom. I can tell her anything and there’s no judgement but I don’t. My mothers ears aren’t for all words/feelings/situations. Her coworker once remarked how my mom has a beautiful friendship with her adult kids. My mothers answer was “I’m their mother not their friend”. It’s a strong, strong bond we share and we like each as people, which helps tremendously. Those I know as daughters or mothers of daughters that have the “best friend” or “my mini me” mentality have a codependency that borders on toxic. There’s the refusal/inability to separate themselves through life stages that inhibits growth and maturity on both sides. |
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Post by charmedhour on Jun 14, 2023 12:27:02 GMT
I never will either and that sucks pretty badly. I actually know very very few women who are "best friends" with their mothers and the relationship isn't co-dependent ... so there's a part of me that raises an eyebrow when someone is best friends with a parent, but maybe I'm wildly cynical. What do you think would happen if you just didn't reach out to fix things when she was upset? Maybe you can just quietly quit that job and see how that impacts things? I have to agree with you on the mom/bff dynamic. Like I said in the thread- I’m so very lucky to have amazing parents, especially my mom. I always joke she’s not allowed to die because she’s the ride or die. There’s little my mom wouldn’t do for us if it’s in her power to help. All my life she has always said, “I’m your mother not your friend” and it holds true. I love spending time with my mom, as adults we share some common interests (I’m much more like my dad personality wise and interests/hobbies). My favorite thing with my mom is going to Stevie Nicks concerts. She’s not much of a fan but comes along every single time. But I never view her as anything other than my mom. I can tell her anything and there’s no judgement but I don’t. My mothers ears aren’t for all words/feelings/situations because she’s my mother. Her coworker once remarked how my mom has a beautiful friendship with her adult kids. My mothers answer was “I’m their mother not their friend”. It’s a strong, strong bond we share and we like each as people, which helps tremendously. Those I know as daughters or mothers of daughters that have the “best friend” or “my mini me” mentality have a codependency that borders on toxic. There’s the refusal/inability to separate themselves through life stages that inhibits growth and maturity on both sides. |
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holly
OGs 
GR member since 2005
Posts: 1,212
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Post by holly on Jun 14, 2023 16:43:21 GMT
I think I’ll actually feel some kind of relief when she’s gone, but I’ll probably feel guilt for feeling that way. This ... all over. I'm 100% sure I will feel relief and guilt both. It's going to be complicated. Oh yes, you know it will. I just hope that when that time comes, at least we were on good terms at the moment. |
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burnt_toast
OGs
bitter jealous fatty from the way back
Posts: 673
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Post by burnt_toast on Jun 14, 2023 19:26:25 GMT
My dad and I were pretty well always estranged due to circumstance, his alcoholism, and various other things I didn't really understand when I was younger. He died when I was 17 and it was a complicated grieving process: lots of resentment, and some relief (the last time I'd heard from him was when he was arrested for driving, drunk, to see me for my 16th birthday), and an awful lot of regret. Since then I've lost quite a few people close to me and it seems like every single one of those losses involved some resentment, some relief, some regret and lots of pain. I dunno what I'm trying to say except that I just think death is complicated. It might be more so with my mother but also ... maybe not.
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Post by notoriousmkg on Jun 14, 2023 19:32:40 GMT
I was wondering something -- what would you guys do/have done differently to break the cycle of what you went through with your mother or father?
While I never had major problems with my parents, I definitely had resolved to not be drunk around my kids. And also to check in with them regularly about how they were doing. Make sure that they got to travel internationally when they were young. And instead of forbidding certain activities, talking to them about decision making and consequences.
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Post by no1novice on Jun 14, 2023 19:38:09 GMT
I was wondering something -- what would you guys do/have done differently to break the cycle of what you went through with your mother or father? While I never had major problems with my parents, I definitely had resolved to not be drunk around my kids. And also to check in with them regularly about how they were doing. Make sure that they got to travel internationally when they were young. And instead of forbidding certain activities, talking to them about decision making and consequences. Not be an arsehole. |
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burnt_toast
OGs
bitter jealous fatty from the way back
Posts: 673
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Post by burnt_toast on Jun 14, 2023 20:57:06 GMT
I've done things REALLY differently with my children. Most of the differences are in priorities. I didn't micromanage them and gave them lots of space to be whomever they wanted/needed to be (no creation of any mini-me's going on). I have been drunk around my kids, but I've also discussed it with them both before and after (although this wasn't until they were in their teenage years). It has been a good opportunity to discuss safe alcohol consumption and for them to see the adult choices that are made regarding transportation, planning food intake, making sure you are in a safe place with safe people etc.
Mostly, for me, the biggest difference was making sure they knew I would ALWAYS be there. Thick or thin, no manipulation, no bullshit, no ego. I'm their mom and I'm on their side. Full stop. They want therapy with me, I'm in. They want to talk, I'm in. Body to bury .. gimme a ring but you better have a damn good reason.
I think the other thing that's been really useful is discussing my relationship with my parents with them. They know I love my mom and that our relationship is toxic and harmful for me. They understand that you can love someone and also not be able to share your life with them. That understanding gives all of us a lot of freedom to communicate our needs in the relationship because there is no question of how much we love each other. Love and need and community are three really different things. In my house, the love is foundational, which lets the other two things be flexible and changeable, depending on the needs.
If, in the end, my children decide that a relationship with me does more harm than good I will be horribly sad - BUT - I won't think it means they don't love me. I trust them to make good decisions to take care of themselves and I respect them and their ability to make those decisions.
Oh, the other thing I do that is VASTLY different than my mom is that I work hard to cultivate a whole life that has mostly nothing to do with my children. I have a gaggle of good friends, a rewarding job, paintings to paint and hobbies to pursue. I think that's pretty well foundational. My sense of self worth doesn't come from parenting, even though it's something I have put most of my time and energy into for the last 22 years.
My mom was so focused on the title of mom that she did horrible things to protect it.
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holly
OGs
GR member since 2005
Posts: 1,212
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Post by holly on Jun 15, 2023 0:30:22 GMT
My dad and I were pretty well always estranged due to circumstance, his alcoholism, and various other things I didn't really understand when I was younger. He died when I was 17 and it was a complicated grieving process: lots of resentment, and some relief (the last time I'd heard from him was when he was arrested for driving, drunk, to see me for my 16th birthday), and an awful lot of regret. Since then I've lost quite a few people close to me and it seems like every single one of those losses involved some resentment, some relief, some regret and lots of pain. I dunno what I'm trying to say except that I just think death is complicated. It might be more so with my mother but also ... maybe not. I'm so sorry about your dad. My husband is an alcoholic (that's a whole other conversation), so I definitely understand the resentment that comes with that territory. |
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holly
OGs
GR member since 2005
Posts: 1,212
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Post by holly on Jun 15, 2023 0:36:48 GMT
I've done things REALLY differently with my children. Most of the differences are in priorities. I didn't micromanage them and gave them lots of space to be whomever they wanted/needed to be (no creation of any mini-me's going on). I have been drunk around my kids, but I've also discussed it with them both before and after (although this wasn't until they were in their teenage years). It has been a good opportunity to discuss safe alcohol consumption and for them to see the adult choices that are made regarding transportation, planning food intake, making sure you are in a safe place with safe people etc. Mostly, for me, the biggest difference was making sure they knew I would ALWAYS be there. Thick or thin, no manipulation, no bullshit, no ego. I'm their mom and I'm on their side. Full stop. They want therapy with me, I'm in. They want to talk, I'm in. Body to bury .. gimme a ring but you better have a damn good reason. I think the other thing that's been really useful is discussing my relationship with my parents with them. They know I love my mom and that our relationship is toxic and harmful for me. They understand that you can love someone and also not be able to share your life with them. That understanding gives all of us a lot of freedom to communicate our needs in the relationship because there is no question of how much we love each other. Love and need and community are three really different things. In my house, the love is foundational, which lets the other two things be flexible and changeable, depending on the needs. If, in the end, my children decide that a relationship with me does more harm than good I will be horribly sad - BUT - I won't think it means they don't love me. I trust them to make good decisions to take care of themselves and I respect them and their ability to make those decisions. Oh, the other thing I do that is VASTLY different than my mom is that I work hard to cultivate a whole life that has mostly nothing to do with my children. I have a gaggle of good friends, a rewarding job, paintings to paint and hobbies to pursue. I think that's pretty well foundational. My sense of self worth doesn't come from parenting, even though it's something I have put most of my time and energy into for the last 22 years. My mom was so focused on the title of mom that she did horrible things to protect it. Sometimes you can have someone in your heart, but not in your life. I totally get that. I don't have any kids, but if I did, I'd make sure that they knew they could come to me with anything, & not be judged or punished for feeling a certain way, or being curious. I'd also take the initiative to ask them how they are on a regular basis & have real conversations with them about things they may face & how might they react in certain situations, & then we could discuss why that would or would not be a good idea, but I wouldn't judge them. They're kids, they don't have the life experience or maturity that comes with being an adult. And I think if I felt like I could go to my parents like that, a lot of bad shit that happened to me probably wouldn't have. |
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Post by kittylady on Jun 15, 2023 2:54:41 GMT
This thread has had me wondering how I'd react if I got the news that my sperm donor was dead and all I'm coming up with is nothing. I don't think that I'd feel anything. I don't know whether that's better or worse than relief.
I'm very, very close to Ma Kitty though. We can literally talk about anything and nothing for hours at a time and still have plenty to say to each other and I don't think we've had a fight since I was a teenager. I think we're very alike in a lot of ways, so that helps.
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Post by no1novice on Jun 15, 2023 11:43:36 GMT
I never will either and that sucks pretty badly. I actually know very very few women who are "best friends" with their mothers and the relationship isn't co-dependent ... so there's a part of me that raises an eyebrow when someone is best friends with a parent, but maybe I'm wildly cynical. What do you think would happen if you just didn't reach out to fix things when she was upset? Maybe you can just quietly quit that job and see how that impacts things? It has taken me years to get to the part when I can tolerate my mother. We are friends. We are good friends and yep she can be my best friend at times. For my mother she knows how to be a friend but her own parental role models were very lacking so it works. It helps that she had apologised to me about some of what she did when we were both younger. She says herself that she didn't know what she was going as a parent. She's not keen when I agree but owns it which goes a long way. |
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Post by imnotbitter on Jun 16, 2023 20:24:25 GMT
I hadn't spoke to her since 4/25 & I ended up hanging up on her (I am going through some heavy shit right now & her support consisted of "Oh Holly!" in an exasperated tone of voice, as if I'm a child overreacting to not getting candy or something trivial.) This is what my MIL said when she found me crying at my mother's funeral. One of many reasons I don't speak to her and haven't for 5+ years. |
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holly
OGs
GR member since 2005
Posts: 1,212
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Post by holly on Jun 16, 2023 20:59:20 GMT
I hadn't spoke to her since 4/25 & I ended up hanging up on her (I am going through some heavy shit right now & her support consisted of "Oh Holly!" in an exasperated tone of voice, as if I'm a child overreacting to not getting candy or something trivial.) This is what my MIL said when she found me crying at my mother's funeral. One of many reasons I don't speak to her and haven't for 5+ years. Ugh. I'm so sorry. How in the world does she expect you to be at your mother's funeral? Laughing it up? WTF...some people just lack empathy if it's something they haven't personally experienced. And some people are just stone cold. |
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Post by notoriousmkg on Jun 16, 2023 21:28:45 GMT
I hadn't spoke to her since 4/25 & I ended up hanging up on her (I am going through some heavy shit right now & her support consisted of "Oh Holly!" in an exasperated tone of voice, as if I'm a child overreacting to not getting candy or something trivial.) This is what my MIL said when she found me crying at my mother's funeral. One of many reasons I don't speak to her and haven't for 5+ years. Whoa - she'd love me. I cried at the funeral scene in "Bridge to Terabithia"...... |
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Post by dksnj on Jun 16, 2023 22:04:03 GMT
I'm 54 and haven't spoken to my father since I was 19. He and my mother divorced when I was 3, but he was always involved. Although we lived a state away, he would come pick my older brother and I up every weekend (and even took my younger brother from my mom's 2nd marriage). Anyway, when I was 19 I was dating a black guy and got pregnant. My father, in a cowardly move, left a letter on my dresser about how he was so disappointed in me and if I didn't have an abortion he'd never speak to me again. I figured it was his loss. I ended up marrying the guy and had another child. We were married for 24 years. I now have a beautiful 34 year old daughter and 32 year old son. Wouldn't have changed a thing...except I should have gotten divorced sooner  Both my kids know they can come to me with anything and I'd support them. My son told me the day after his HS graduation he was gay (although I knew) and I am 100% fine with it. He also does drag throughout NJ/NY and I go to some of his shows and support him 100%. An ironic twist...my father relocated to Florida over 20 years and his neighbors are black. They are he and his wife's best friends and travel all over together. The hypocrisy! |
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Both my kids know they can come to me with anything and I'd support them. My son told me the day after his HS graduation he was gay (although I knew) and I am 100% fine with it. He also does drag throughout NJ/NY and I go to some of his shows and support him 100%. An ironic twist...my father relocated to Florida over 20 years and his neighbors are black. They are he and his wife's best friends and travel all over together. The hypocrisy!