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Post by MsDark on Mar 18, 2023 15:25:14 GMT
I think she went into all of this with a "can't be that difficult" attitude, which I can relate to, but what was a big mistake. And then when she made mistakes, it went downhill from all parties. In the end, she felt that she couldn't get anything right, and the RF felt that she wasn't trying hard enough. I would like to cut the RF some slack for the whole situation, but then, their undeniable racist behavior is inexcusable. No winners around in the end, but what an asset Meghan, Harry and the kids would have been for the RF, I think they've lost far more, what they gained is an even worse reputation for racism and elitism. I don't even recall seeing Zara at the wedding, Meghan was such a lovely bride, super cute and super beautiful, Charles was so nice with Doria, that's what I remember. I'm just so naive, sigh. This sums up pretty much what I was about to post. I don't think she's any worse than several people in the RF. They just refuse to cover for her like they do for the others. And now that they're gone the RF and British press is definitely more than happy to throw both of them under the bus every chance they get because they seem to feel it elevates the rest of the RF. People are easily swayed so it has sort of worked. In the UK anyway. Oh...and a lot of Trumpers here in the US hate them (mainly her) too because he doesn't like her. Big surprise there.
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Post by cornflakegrl on Mar 18, 2023 17:57:40 GMT
I'm not convinced that the RF could have benefited from H&M. I mean, yes, if H&M were going to play ball and do as the firm requires but I don't think that would have ever really happened.
Harry had been privately struggling with his royal status (per him) for a while. Meghan had no particular loyalty or what have you for the institution (like most Americans - they are fun to watch but we don't feel that strongly about any of it). I think had they stayed they would have been increasing frustrated by the confines of their roles and things would probably be even nastier (behind closed doors with strategic leaks to the press).
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Post by czb on Mar 18, 2023 19:04:27 GMT
For what it’s worth… Queen Elizabeth was never Princess of Wales, as that was determined to be the title for the wife of the heir, not the heiress) herself. Any royal title without an heir reverts back to the crown. So if Mark Phillips had taken an earldom and had died with no heirs, the title would have either died with him or reverted back to the crown. It couldn’t have passed to the Tindalls. And Louise and James are styled as the children of an earl, though they could also be styled as prince/princess. Their parents chose the lord/lady titles and styles for them. And as others have noted, Lili and Archie became prince/princess when Charles became king. He didn’t need to do anything for them to have those titles, as grandchildren of the sovereign. (Also why Beatrice and Eugenia are princesses). So Harry and Meghan were indeed wrong for feeling hard done by when Archie had no title upon birth. He would have only gotten it at that point if the queen had given him one or letters patent had been changed so that the title was bestowed immediately, instead of when Harry’s father became king. did they say they wanted archie to get titles at birth? i thought they were afraid that the rules were going to be changed by charles as part of the 'slimmed down' monarchy.
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Post by MsDark on Mar 18, 2023 19:10:42 GMT
Yes Harry's been chafing at all this for awhile. But I don't think it would have taken too much for them to play ball once he settled down and married and had kids. Especially being that he got to choose someone he actually wanted. The real problem is they (the RF, their handlers, the UK press, the easily swayed public) just weren't going to stand for Meghan, period.
She is a too huge a departure from what is the traditional norm for Harry to be expected to be with: Commoner, non-British, divorced, actress, fucked up family, her age and most especially, non-white. Too many strikes against her and a huge departure from anything they expected they'd be dealing with. Even one or two of those things would have meant she'd have to deal with a lot and life would have been very difficult for them/her for a long time. I remember what Kate had to deal with for merely being a commoner. But ALL those things I listed...that's way too much way too fast for people to accept.
Honestly they way they rake these potential in-laws (mainly the women) over the coals who dare to marry into this family, finding a partner who would be the most acceptable to the British masses, willing to put up with the bullshit of being made to feel unworthy and criticized for years before being grudingly accepted (maybe eventually admired after a few decades of suffering this bullshit and working hard) AND someone you actually vibe with (like Charles and Camilla, Liz and Phillip) is probably like finding a needle in a haystack.
Usually the RF (especially the direct line descendents) have to settle for someone who is a smart investment who looks good on paper and ticks off all (or most) of the boxes, like Will and Kate, Charles and Di. And then later on you find yourself miserable but you're expected to suck it up and carry on and act like you like each other. And the press will help with convincing everyone of that if you play ball. Cause it's a huge scandal if you don't.
I often wonder if Diana hadn't been killed (oops, I mean accidentally died) and was still living if things would have played out as easily for Charles and Camilla.
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Post by czb on Mar 18, 2023 19:17:10 GMT
at first, i thought the main reason that meghan was repellant was because she was divorced and mixed race. now, i think it's because she is american and a californian. after seeing her in interviews and the netflix special, and listening to her podcasts, i think there was just too much of a cultural divide. the talking about feelings (very californian), gushiness, and the basic chitter chatter that is meghan would be pretty grating to a conservative british family. *i* find it grating and i'm american! she is so effusive, it's just too much.
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Post by MsDark on Mar 18, 2023 19:31:11 GMT
I think there's a good argument for any of those unexpecteds being a main reason. But I'm still going with the top one being that she's non-white, particularly having african ancestry of any percentage. Yes I think this low key matters to them (and the public) more than they will ever be willing to admit.
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Post by czb on Mar 18, 2023 19:44:51 GMT
that may be. but i *do* think part of it is her personality. i can't see an uptight, laced-up chick like kathy getting along with someone effusive like meghan. and the two of them getting along would've definitely benefitted meghan.
the reason fergie and diana (for example) seemed to get along was because diana wasn't as rigid as kathy. plus she was lonely. kathy isn't lonely because she has her family to rely on, even if she can't really trust the palace staff.
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Post by sputnik on Mar 18, 2023 19:58:44 GMT
i think the fact that she's black in addition to all of the other personality traits which i agree clashed with the british conservative way of doing things, meant their effect and annoyance levels for the RF, were exacerbated. that's where the unconscious bias portion comes in.
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Post by czb on Mar 18, 2023 20:27:42 GMT
i just hate the fact that she is mixed race factors in at all. so it may be that is *my* bias. i really liked her a lot until i heard her podcasts. the one that annoyed me the most was the one in which she described going to the pool with girlfriends. so so soooo annoying. and then the goofy exaggerations, like quoting that lion king actor.
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Post by no1novice on Mar 18, 2023 23:18:19 GMT
i just hate the fact that she is mixed race factors in at all. so it may be that is *my* bias. i really liked her a lot until i heard her podcasts. the one that annoyed me the most was the one in which she described going to the pool with girlfriends. so so soooo annoying. and then the goofy exaggerations, like quoting that lion king actor. Not just you. It could have been really good if she wasn't so irritating - don't get me wrong Bill & Kathy are certainly no prize but that woman has played the long game & nothing was going to stand in her way (Inc dumping her friends at the last minute when the petulant prince clicked his fingers). I don't think that M anticipated that & didn't even have a game - even now they just seem to be lurching from one TMI to another contradicting themselves as they go. H just (clearly) wanted out & this was his ticket. He also appears to have no strategy - it's like watching a novice player up against a grand master (the RF machine as a whole).
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Post by loftybike on Mar 19, 2023 8:43:23 GMT
I often wonder if Diana hadn't been killed (oops, I mean accidentally died) and was still living if things would have played out as easily for Charles and Camilla. IIRC, Diana's dead was a total set back for Charles' plan to make Camilla acceptable in the public eye. Because Diana dating Dodi Al-Fayet gave him a certain freedom, she had moved on, so could he. After her untimely death, the hold she had over the RF and especially over Charles' relationship with Camilla tightened to a point where he couldn't even think about been seen with Camilla. While Camilla loomed over Diana's marriage, Dianas dead still loomes over Charles and Camilla to this day.
I like Camilla and I like them both, they are a cute couple and there is no doubt that Camilla makes Charles happy, that the whole marriage with Diana was a terrible mistake that everyone suffered from. I don't think Diana was the saint or the victim she has since been made out to be (she had emancipated herself from the situation, played the press like a fiddle and had fought hard for her independence, no small feat in the RF and it bothers me that people willfully underestimate her to make her the perfect victim) but Diana's death has made it impossible for C&Cs to restore her reputation, it remains tarnished. Is that fair? I don't think so. Still, do they deserve it? In many ways, yes.
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Post by sputnik on Mar 19, 2023 18:21:54 GMT
^^^^ this. diana's death wasn't murder. the driver of the car was plastered and driving in tunnels at a stupid speed. diana's death made things more complicated for the RF, not less and, like you said, delayed camilla's acceptance even further. and dating dodi actually tarnished diana's saintly image because he was muslim and flashy new money. which is why i never bought into the conspiracy theories.
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Post by czb on Mar 19, 2023 21:10:47 GMT
i agree it wasn't murder. still not a camilla fan, though. agree that charles and di should have never married and diana had tons of issues. but i feel like camilla was low-key harrassing diana. going to her wedding?? and wearing white? having lunch with her? ugh. she should have been like most mistresses and stayed in the shadows.
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Post by cornflakegrl on Mar 21, 2023 11:54:39 GMT
Prince Harry and Meghan Markle’s Alleged Coronation “Demands” Have the Palace Spiraling Per UsualIf you’re someone who pays attention to royal news (and by that I mean royal drama), you obviously know there’s been a lot of speculation about whether or not Prince Harry and Meghan Markle will show up at King Charles’s coronation on May 6. While the couple’s spokesperson recently confirmed that they have, in fact, been invited*, they haven’t confirmed whether they’ll actually attend. But apparently, Meghan and Harry have some (pretty reasonable, TBH) “demands.” Specifically, that their children, Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet, are included in the ceremony and that their entire family is included on the Buckingham Palace balcony. But according to a source who spoke to OK! magazine (via The Sun), Archie and Lilibet’s inclusion in the ceremony has “never been a bone of contention” because small children don’t attend royal events of this scale “due to restlessness and tantrums.” As for the balcony thing…TBD. “The Palace are trying to wrap up negotiations as quickly as possible because they can’t go right up to the wire,” a source said. “It could lead to chaos. It could very well be that it ends in stalemate and they won’t attend. But the Palace is doing everything in its power to not let that happen. However, what the Sussexes are pushing for is for them to be included with the rest of the family at the Palace later that day. It’s also Prince Archie’s birthday on coronation day so they would like some kind of nod to that at a lunch or drinks reception. Even if it’s just a happy birthday mention.” Seems reasonable enough! *Confirmation from the spokesperson: “I can confirm the duke has recently received email correspondence from His Majesty’s office regarding the coronation. An immediate decision on whether the duke and duchess will attend will not be disclosed by us at this time.” link
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Post by no1novice on Mar 21, 2023 19:42:55 GMT
"Specifically, that their children, Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet, are included in the ceremony"
Which is reasonable when you know that Bill & Kathy's kids are being included.
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