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Post by albatross on Mar 15, 2023 4:23:26 GMT
eta: also, correct me if i am wrong ... i thought that H&M wanted to do royal work but not in the UK, and QEii said No. I thought they wanted to be part time royals regardless of continent. I thought the title thing was basically by royal rules or what have you. The King's grandchildren are granted titles. Not nieces or nephews or cousins or whatever. So now that Charles is King, he bestows the titles. What I found interesting about the story was that there are established rules yet there was all the hub bub when M&H had a baby and he wasn't automatically titled. It was deemed a snub. But it wasn't. It's not quite that the King's grandchildren are granted titles. It's that the children of the King's sons are entitled to be prince or princess. Before Charles was born, his grandfather issued a Letters Patent to give Elizabeth's children the style HRH and have prince/princess titles because as daughter of the king, her children would have been born as commoners, despite the fact that she was the Princess of Wales. Queen Elizabeth issued similar Letters Patent to ensure William's children would be born with HRH and prince/princess titles. Around the same time, the rules of succession were changed, so unlike Anne when Andrew and Edward were born, Charlotte did not drop in the line succession when Louis was born.
That's why Anne's children are not prince and princess - they were never entitled to be prince and princess. I've read that their father turned a title when he married Anne, so they were never entitled to any title at birth. They could have received a title from the Queen, but Anne turned that down.
From I remember, the issue regarding Harry's children was that around the time that Archie was born, the palace was considering changing the rules so that only children of the Prince/Princess of Wales would be entitled to be prince/princess. So, you have the Queen ensuring that William's children become prince/princess at birth despite not being grandchildren of the monarch, and then the palace considering changing the rules to keep H&M's kids from ever becoming prince/princess.
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Post by kittylady on Mar 15, 2023 4:36:18 GMT
Chris Rock touched upon MM in his Netflix show. It made me think of one thing - if you're going to marry into an historical family get some history books and read. It can't hurt.You can read about the history and the pomp and pageantry all you like, but I don't think that there's going to be anything you can read that will fully prepare you for not just the role you'll be expected to take up but also the Machiavellian complexities that go on behind closed doors, not just with the various household's advisors but also the family themselves. It's only in the last few years that the veil of picture perfect noble mystique has started to become slightly more transparent and we're seeing more and more of who these people really are which, in some cases ( *cough* Andrew *cough*), is much more distasteful then we previously could have believed. Anne's kids don't have titles at all while Edward + Sophie's kids are a viscount + a lady and will not work as working royals when they are adults. Andrews girls are both princesses. It's the parent choice + given the perceived feeling toward the mixed race kids by the courtiers I can see why Harry wanted them. A title doesn't mean fuck until you go through passport control. Anne's children don't have titles because Mark Phillips was an untitled male marrying a titled Royal female and titles can't pass down the female line. He was offered an Earldom on his marriage to Anne but turned it down, although there has been some hushed speculation over the years that it was because Anne felt that being formally known as a Countess would be a gross demotion/distraction from her honorary title of Princess Royal. If Mark Phillips had taken the Earldom then Peter and Zara Phillips would have become Lord Peter and Lady Zara at birth, with Peter inheriting the Earldom on his father's death. Zara's children would be untitled (again, due to titles not passing down the female line) and remain that way unless her daughters marry someone who is titled themselves or Peter Phillips died without a legitimate son, in which case the Earldom would likely pass to Lucas Tindall rather than any male grandchild his daughters may have (that whole "no female can pass a title" bollocks yet again). With the passing of QEII and the ascension to the throne of Charles III, Prince Edward has now been granted use the title of Duke of Edinburgh, which means his wife Sophie is now the Duchess of Edinburgh rather than Countess of Wessex. Their son James is now officially known as Earl of Wessex, although that is considered a courtesy title right now as his father is no longer actively using it himself. Upon Edward's death then James can then be known as The Earl of Wessex. As a mere female Lady Louise doesn't get any upgrade unless she can marry one.
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Post by ❤️ NickiDrea ❤️ on Mar 15, 2023 15:05:41 GMT
^^^ I get all of that, but I still find it strange. It seems like Harry wants the privileges of being a royal, but has a problem with his family and the restrictions/work, and somehow that distinction got a bit lost. Harry was a working total until two or three years ago. He has never had an issue putting in work for his family. He has always complained about hating the media but never complained about doing Royal duties. Meghan also never complained about any duties she did. Also, they wanted to continue being working royals but didn’t want to be in the Royal fold but were told they couldn’t do that. One thing you can say about these two is that they aren’t lazy and are willing to do hands on work when it comes to charity stuff. They’re still doing it now. His issue was the media and his family leaking stories, not work. And Meghan was criticized for working too hard (5 am emails to her staff).
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Post by czb on Mar 15, 2023 15:20:45 GMT
i don't think meghan was criticized for working too hard, she was criticized for sending so many emails off hours. which may be an american thing? i get work emails at all hours and it is considered normal. if i don't want to respond i don't. but meghan gets criticized for everything so it doesn't matter.
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Post by dolem on Mar 15, 2023 18:49:10 GMT
I work with a group of people on the east coast/ Caribbean islands , I'm west coast USA so there's a 3 (sometimes 4) hour time difference. I get a ton of emails/slacks/what's app messages related to work while I'm still sleeping. I just have my phone set up so that they don't make any noise and wake me up. I just catch up when I start my day at 9.
the criticism of MM for sending early emails was, in my opinion, ridiculous. Did she expect everyone else to be up as well? That's not what I had read, just that she sent them off too early for the recipients liking.
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trixie
OGs
stuck in the middle with you...
Posts: 2,105
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Post by trixie on Mar 16, 2023 2:29:30 GMT
^^ Same. So what's the big deal? Were people expected to immediately respond at 5am? Doubtful. If I'm up at 3am and send an email (which might happen with an insomniac) it doesn't mean I expect anthing but getting a response when the recipients wake up at their normal time.
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Post by daphodil on Mar 16, 2023 21:52:25 GMT
I send a ton of emails between 5:45 and 7:00 a.m. because everyone is not at work yet and asking me to help them with something. I don't expect an immediate response.
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Post by cornflakegrl on Mar 17, 2023 0:46:33 GMT
None of us are royals though or soon to be royals.
Perhaps royal staff is supposed to be available 24/7. Not that Meghan expected that, she might not have known though that if she sends an email, sends a text, rings a bell or sighs to loudly, staff is expected to respond.
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Post by czb on Mar 17, 2023 1:02:44 GMT
then they should tell her so that she can correct the behavior.
i hate this kind of "let's not say anything and then bitch later". grrrrr. pet peeve in relationships - work or otherwise.
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Post by shellee on Mar 17, 2023 2:10:48 GMT
Supposedly Sophie was supposed to help her and Megan thought Harry would be good enough. Regardless, I think that she knew enough about royal protocol that she had to know that when Prince Harry’s wife emails at 5 am, she expects a prompt response.
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Post by loftybike on Mar 17, 2023 16:32:21 GMT
I think she went into all of this with a "can't be that difficult" attitude, which I can relate to, but what was a big mistake. And then when she made mistakes, it went downhill from all parties. In the end, she felt that she couldn't get anything right, and the RF felt that she wasn't trying hard enough. I would like to cut the RF some slack for the whole situation, but then, their undeniable racist behavior is inexcusable. No winners around in the end, but what an asset Meghan, Harry and the kids would have been for the RF, I think they've lost far more, what they gained is an even worse reputation for racism and elitism.
I don't even recall seeing Zara at the wedding, Meghan was such a lovely bride, super cute and super beautiful, Charles was so nice with Doria, that's what I remember. I'm just so naive, sigh.
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Post by no1novice on Mar 17, 2023 22:26:32 GMT
Zara was 8+ months preggers - I posted in the other thread about it.
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Post by loftybike on Mar 17, 2023 23:50:33 GMT
^^^I was referring to your post, had the threads mixed up.
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Post by no1novice on Mar 18, 2023 9:04:58 GMT
^^^I was referring to your post, had the threads mixed up. Haha! Same!
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Post by pecanpie on Mar 18, 2023 12:44:15 GMT
For what it’s worth… Queen Elizabeth was never Princess of Wales, as that was determined to be the title for the wife of the heir, not the heiress) herself. Any royal title without an heir reverts back to the crown. So if Mark Phillips had taken an earldom and had died with no heirs, the title would have either died with him or reverted back to the crown. It couldn’t have passed to the Tindalls. And Louise and James are styled as the children of an earl, though they could also be styled as prince/princess. Their parents chose the lord/lady titles and styles for them. And as others have noted, Lili and Archie became prince/princess when Charles became king. He didn’t need to do anything for them to have those titles, as grandchildren of the sovereign. (Also why Beatrice and Eugenia are princesses). So Harry and Meghan were indeed wrong for feeling hard done by when Archie had no title upon birth. He would have only gotten it at that point if the queen had given him one or letters patent had been changed so that the title was bestowed immediately, instead of when Harry’s father became king.
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