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Post by no1novice on Jul 15, 2022 22:41:48 GMT
The parent's legal counsel is already making noises about how they are going to appeal (again). Hopefully the application will be denied. God she's a cunt. And the Go Fund me? What the bet that she'll have to have a caravan (typo should have read Caribbean but caravan is about her level) holiday to recover from the stress of all of this & a new car to console herself. Nearly as bad as the Maddie McCann "investigation" fund. |
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Post by no1novice on Jul 21, 2022 18:35:44 GMT
Archie Battersbee: Family argue wishes not given 'proper weight'
Published
2 hours ago
Hollie Dance with her son ArchieImage source, Hollie Dance
Image caption,
Parents Hollie Dance (pictured) and Paul Battersbee lost two High Court hearings to continue life-support treatment for their son Archie
The parents of a 12-year-old boy at the centre of a life-support dispute say their wishes and beliefs have not been given "proper weight", a court heard.
Archie Battersbee was found unconscious at home in Southend, Essex, on 7 April and doctors believe he is brain dead.
Last week a second High Court judge ruled it was in Archie's best interests to have hospital treatment withdrawn.
The latest Court of Appeal hearing challenging that decision began on Thursday.
Archie has not regained consciousness since his mother found him. She believes he had taken part in an online challenge.
Doctors treating Archie at the Royal London Hospital in east London said tests showed he was "brain-stem dead" and argued continued life-support treatment was not in his best interests.
Archie's parents have disagreed and said his heart was still beating.
Lawyers for the boy's parents, Hollie Dance and Paul Battersbee, told Court of Appeal judges that Mr Justice Hayden, who oversaw the second High Court hearing, had not given "real or proper weight" to Archie's previously expressed wishes and religious beliefs.
Edward Devereux QC also argued the judge failed to carry out a "comprehensive evaluation" of the benefits and burdens of continuing life-support treatment, and had been wrong to conclude that treatment was burdensome and futile.
Archie BattersbeeImage source, Hollie Dance
Image caption,
In June, a first High Court judge ruled that Archie Battersbee was "brain-stem dead"
High Court judge Mrs Justice Arbuthnot initially considered the case in June and concluded Archie had already died. The case went back to the High Court for a second time following an appeal.
Sir Andrew McFarlane, president of the Family Division of the High Court and the most senior family court judge in England and Wales, Lady Justice King and Lord Justice Peter Jackson began considering arguments on Thursday.
The hearing is due to resume on Friday.
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Post by sputnik on Jul 21, 2022 20:32:10 GMT
braindead is braindead regardless of what you believe. your religion doesn't invalidate science.
i agree their beliefs need to be treated with respect but that doesn't mean doing what they want even though it goes against all the medical advice.
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Post by kittylady on Jul 22, 2022 0:13:34 GMT
braindead is braindead regardless of what you believe. your religion doesn't invalidate science. i agree their beliefs need to be treated with respect but that doesn't mean doing what they want even though it goes against all the medical advice. I've read stuff that says that not only is he brain dead but also that the brain stem has been swelling and slipping/pushing into the spinal column. There is nothing to come back. His heart beats because of the medication and machines. He is gone and has been for a long, long time. And I know this sounds mercenary and cruel but every day that is spent keeping an empty shell from decomposing at a natural rate (because let's face it, it's still happening just at a greatly reduced timescale) and every court case and appeal the parents/Christian Concern drag the NHS trust through is bleeding professionals time and funding away from kids who DO have a chance of having an improvement in their health and quality of life but are having to keep waiting because the resources are being eaten up by this one case. |
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Post by no1novice on Jul 22, 2022 21:25:21 GMT
braindead is braindead regardless of what you believe. your religion doesn't invalidate science. i agree their beliefs need to be treated with respect but that doesn't mean doing what they want even though it goes against all the medical advice. Their new beliefs that they got really suddenly when some right-wing Christian group offered to pay their legal fees? Didn't kitty say earlier that the child was already brain dead/in a coma when he was baptised? ETA - no dissing you Sput, just this family that is opportunitistically opening go-fund me to pay for his "care"....
Call me cynical but.... |
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Post by sputnik on Jul 22, 2022 21:37:39 GMT
^^^^
oh no worries, i didn't know that part. yeah, that's sus
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Post by no1novice on Jul 22, 2022 22:19:58 GMT
I didn't until Kitty mentioned it + then the Go Fund me? I was just reading medical-ethics reports & he's very dead www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-comment-on-the-news-that-the-court-of-appeal-has-sent-the-case-of-archie-battersbee-back-to-the-high-court/However, one difference in Archie’s case is that the standard tests for brain death were not possible. “In Archie’s case, testing was complicated because he had evidence of damage both to his spinal cord and his brain. This meant that normal nerve tests were not possible. Doctors used several extra scans. These showed that sadly there was no blood flowing to Archie’s brain, that his brain had no electric activity, and that there was permanent damage to the brain stem (an area at the junction of the brain and the spinal cord that contains crucial nerve centres for controlling basic functions), including those that control breathing and awareness. So very sad for everyone in the family but also the medica & legal profession that are having to continue to treat him.
Also given the damage to his spinal cord, how is that a tiktok-gone-wrong?
Archie suffered brain damage in an incident at home in early April. Ms Dance told how she found him unconscious with a ligature over his head on April 7 and thinks he might have been taking part in an online challenge.
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Post by Sarzy on Jul 22, 2022 22:33:11 GMT
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Post by no1novice on Jul 23, 2022 7:24:33 GMT
Understandable if the poor kid actually commited suicide and very different from the Catholic-faith he was said to be interested in given that suicide is a mortal sin. Also. "The two issues raised show clearly the lack of trust the family has in the very experienced clinicians caring for Archie. I noted from the nursing notes found in the medical records that Archie's mother preferred to search for answers on the internet or from people who had contacted her rather than accepting what the specialist doctors treating Archie and who have care of him on a daily basis were saying. I have had no reason to doubt over the last three weeks when I have heard evidence on three occasions from the three main clinicians treating Archie that they want what is best for him." She said that the MRI scans weren't of Archie but they were & they showed her the originals. Then she said that the hospital was starving him because his body is shutting down because he's only being kept "alive" by the machines. |
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Post by MsDark on Jul 23, 2022 14:09:54 GMT
If he could not survive the electricity going out (and no backup generator) then his heart is NOT beating on its own. And this is clearly the baseline status NOT an acute episode from which he could potentially recover.
Just because this technology exists that does not mean the person is truly alive/living or even returning to any semblance of their previous state. That's what needs to be explained to people like this mother. But sometimes even all the explaining in the world won't change things.
"Then she said that the hospital was starving him because his body is shutting down because he's only being kept "alive" by the machines."
Perhaps she misspoke here. But she clearly doesn't know what she's talking about. If his body is shutting down, he's not starving. The hospital is actually preventing his death via suffocation/fluid overload. And if his body is (blessedly...poor kid) shutting down, the machines aren't causing this, but if that's what she thinks, then hey...let's take him off the machines and see what happens. At this point, it would actually be merciful.
The machines are merely prolonging the process of his body shutting down. And since he can't respond who knows if he's suffering. I hope not.
This is a horrible thing to do to a human being. We treat animals more humanely.
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Post by sputnik on Jul 23, 2022 14:12:23 GMT
ugh you'd think unlimited access to information would have made people smarter, not dumber. alas, all it did is make people dig their heels in and look for the people telling them what they want to hear, whether it's real or not.
re: that quote you bolded, novice. in a nutshell it pretty much explains why the world is going to hell. lack of trust in experts coupled with ignorance and access to the internet and people who will say what you want to hear/confirm you biases.
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Post by MsDark on Jul 23, 2022 15:37:48 GMT
I'm also jaded enough to admit that the mom/family being able to collect a GoFundMe windfall and live off any monthly benefits they're potentially eligible for while he is being kept alive could definitely be an incentive for them to keep him plugged in.
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Post by no1novice on Jul 23, 2022 17:57:08 GMT
It was my phrasing because there was a whole lot of info about how they are feeding him & it's causing his bowel issues as his brain/brain stem isn't working/is showing necrosis etc etc etc which imho equates to his body shutting down but I'm not a medic.
Sput - yes I totally agree, ironic that the more access to information that we have the less people learn.
I was surprised to see that the QC was working pro bono.
The whole info about how the adult MMA fighters pray before a fight made me wonder if it was part of some kind of recovery program rather than a Christian fellowship thing....
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Post by kittylady on Jul 26, 2022 0:50:39 GMT
The Court has upheld the ruling and the parents now have 48 hours to try and appeal to the European Courts. The father apparently collapsed and needed to be taken to hospital with 'either a heart attack or a stroke' right before the case was heard but the Court took the decision not to adjourn. There is no word on the father's condition or whether he has been found to have had a heart attack or a stroke.
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Post by no1novice on Jul 26, 2022 17:14:46 GMT
The Court has upheld the ruling and the parents now have 48 hours to try and appeal to the European Courts. The father apparently collapsed and needed to be taken to hospital with 'either a heart attack or a stroke' right before the case was heard but the Court took the decision not to adjourn. There is no word on the father's condition or whether he has been found to have had a heart attack or a stroke. Well if they have no other option but European courts (& how does that work with Brexit? )They have go to the highest courts in the land. Not surprised about the stress on the dad. But this is the best result |
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