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Post by charmedhour on Apr 14, 2023 21:35:17 GMT
^that's great news! i was sure that they were never going to investigate further the other 'brand new suspects'. Mosby just wanted to claim that he was innocent, enforced by that absence of dna bs. i don't think they are going to put him back in jail, and i think it's ok if he gets to remain free. but at least this helps to bring the focus back to Hae Min Lee's crime. Serial was fun and all but also very misleading. The Prosecutors secondary podcast Legal Briefs just discussed the reinstatement. It was a big boo boo from the state and the judge that led to the reinstatement. Neither Bret or Alice are confident he will be retried or if retried, convicted. I am not at all convinced he’s guilty.
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Post by beeyotch on Apr 17, 2023 21:17:55 GMT
But if Adnan didn't do it, why would he invent all those lies? There were a lot of them, and none of them added up. I don't buy that he was somewhere else completely uninvolved and his friend Jay just made up that stuff he told their friend (Krista? I forget, but I remember her interview a few years ago, and she didn't seem to have incentive to lie anymore.)
*eta: I just think he got lucky in how spectacularly the police and lawyers fucked up the investigation. But that's not the same as being innocent.
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Post by charmedhour on Apr 19, 2023 19:38:15 GMT
But if Adnan didn't do it, why would he invent all those lies? There were a lot of them, and none of them added up. I don't buy that he was somewhere else completely uninvolved and his friend Jay just made up that stuff he told their friend (Krista? I forget, but I remember her interview a few years ago, and she didn't seem to have incentive to lie anymore.) *eta: I just think he got lucky in how spectacularly the police and lawyers fucked up the investigation. But that's not the same as being innocent. This is where I split hairs- I'm not 100% that he's guilty as I believe there is plenty of reasonable doubt. I'm on the fence of "there's more here than we're told/than has been brought to light" and that starts with the shoddy police investigation. I also do believe he had infeective counsel at the trial. I also feel that the investigation focused on him, and only him, very quickly. I posted above about alternate suspects in light of the touch DNA not being Adnan's. As for lies or changing stories, nearly every single person intervierwed by the police, including Jay Wild- he plead out to helping bury Hae's body and served no time, had inconsistencies in their stories. Hell, Wild had wildly inconsistent stories every time he spoke about the details. First, he saw her body in car at Best Buy, then it was at Jay's grandmother's house. Another retelling, Wild said Adnan killed Hae at Patapasco (sp) State Park. Frankly, invesitgators were dealing with teenagers and young adults, and some with their own legal problems and addiction issues. There's some specualtion that Wild was fed information from investigators, off the recording, during his first interview. If you watch the video, there are times where Wild seems to be struggling with recall, there is a knock on the table and suddenly he remembers. There's a whole psychology behind witness testimony, and the short of it is- people "file" information they deem relevant or important. It's quite often unreliable and inconsistent from witness to witness in the same situation. Asking people for their recall of dates, times, locations, etc. is not without issues; memories are susceptible to all kinds of errors, biases, and just mis-remembering, in general.
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Post by notoriousmkg on Apr 19, 2023 20:16:33 GMT
I think the other problem is that we are not privy to all the evidence presented - for and against guilt - in the case. When I go back to re-read details, a lot of stuff is described in a very shorthand way. The big things that continually get mentioned are:
1. Adnan being pissed about the breakup with Hae Min 2. Jay Wilds personally testifying about seeing the body and helping bury it 3. Supposed cell phone tower pings that put Adnan in the same area as the body and Jay 4. McClain, the defense witness (not presented in first trial; McClain did not write an affidavit until a month after Syed is convicted) who claims to have talked with Adnan at the library at the same time the murder would have occurred.
With Wilds, there has been inconsistency about when and where he first saw the body. But from what I have read, there has been NOTHING to indicate that he proved he knew WHERE the body was buried. The body was discovered three weeks later by a third party (Alonzo Sellers) who happened upon part of it sticking out of the ground when he pulled his car to the side of the road to urinate (he went out in the woods to be less visible).
What I feel is missing (from what's available on the Internet) is clinical, impartial information as to what exactly Jay Wilds said that could corroborate his story. For example, he helped bury the body and should have been able to walk the detectives exactly to that location without knowing anything about what Alonzo Sellers said. For example - where was the body? How deep was it buried? In what position was it buried? What was she wearing at the time? Also, was Wilds testifying in return for reduced charges on some other legal stuff he might have been facing?
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Post by beeyotch on Apr 20, 2023 13:21:26 GMT
It's true that there's so many contradictory statements and details that smack of the cops feeding Jay the story they made up because they didn't have all the details. And Jay went along with it because he wasn't exactly squeaky clean but he didn't want to go down for murder so I could see where he thought he had no other choice but to say what cops wanted.
The only thing that generally makes sense is Adnan killing Hae, and getting Jay to help him cover it up. The cops didn't have the evidence to make it stand up in court, so they made it up and the lawyers were incompetent along the way.
It was bungled so spectacularly that at this point we'll never know the details so debating them feels like an exercise in futility. I feel for Hae's family, they're never going to get the truth or real justice for their daughter.
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Post by notoriousmkg on Apr 20, 2023 14:24:30 GMT
It's true that there's so many contradictory statements and details that smack of the cops feeding Jay the story they made up because they didn't have all the details. And Jay went along with it because he wasn't exactly squeaky clean but he didn't want to go down for murder so I could see where he thought he had no other choice but to say what cops wanted. The only thing that generally makes sense is Adnan killing Hae, and getting Jay to help him cover it up. The cops didn't have the evidence to make it stand up in court, so they made it up and the lawyers were incompetent along the way. It was bungled so spectacularly that at this point we'll never know the details so debating them feels like an exercise in futility. I feel for Hae's family, they're never going to get the truth or real justice for their daughter. [Quick note - I just realized that I have been driving through the area where all this stuff occurred the past 3 years when I got to the thing I volunteer at. I drive through Adnan's family's neighborhood. The high school of Jay, Hae Min and Adnan, is about 1/4 mile from where I volunteer. Leakin Park is a little farther away. Local business that they worked or hung out at are places I drive by also.] Bee, I think it is still difficult to sort out who know what, who tipped off the police and who had conversations with whom. I've been reading Jay Wild's court testimony from the second trial, and he was very detailed about the sequence of events that day, and what he did and what he did not do. There is a lot of confusion about the cars and the bodies. Partly because the accusation is that Adnand killed Hae Min and then put her body in the trunk of her own car and was driving around with it. And that Wilds was driving Adnan's car, while Adnan drove Hae Min's. Jay basically says they drove both cars to Leakin Park and that Jay refused to handle the body. I think he says that Adnan then dug the grave, brought the body down when he was done and then covered it up. I can't remember what happens to Hae Min's car after that. Another critical element is the involvement of Jenn Pusateri, who was a mutual friend of both Jay and Adnan's - but more Jay. She initially told someone that Jay told her that he knew Hae Min was dead, but that was all. But her limited knowledge of what happened advanced the process of identifying Jay and Adnan, I think. Jay implies that Adnan blackmailed him into helping him out by stating that he would let on that Jay was selling pot out of his grandmother's house - something like that. Below are links to the transcripts of Jay and Jenn. It can be really laborious to read through. Adnan's lawyer (Gutierrez) spends a huge amount of time on stuff like plea agreements, sworn vs unsworn testimony, cell-phone records, etc. I am not surprised AT ALL that Jay and Jenn's memories would be faulty here. www.adnansyedwiki.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/T2w22a-20000204-Jay-Wilds-Testimony-Second-Trial-of-Adnan-Syed.pdfwww.adnansyedwiki.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/T2w24b-20000216-Jennifer-P-Testimony-Second-Trial-of-Adnan-Syed.pdf
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Post by beeyotch on Apr 20, 2023 14:47:29 GMT
Right, that's what I'm saying, it's impossible to verify any details. I went down that document rabbit hole in this case years ago. Everyone including the cops got caught lying, misremembering or changing stories, being incompetent at their jobs, etc. So all we're left with is general facts, common sense and gut feelings which won't prove anything in court.
Just public opinion, and mine is that Adnan killed Hae.
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Post by notoriousmkg on Apr 20, 2023 15:25:24 GMT
Right, that's what I'm saying, it's impossible to verify any details. I went down that document rabbit hole in this case years ago. Everyone including the cops got caught lying, misremembering or changing stories, being incompetent at their jobs, etc. So all we're left with is general facts, common sense and gut feelings which won't prove anything in court. Just public opinion, and mine is that Adnan killed Hae. It doesn't help that all the kids in the case sound like stoners who have a lack of appreciation for the gravity of what happened. It reminds me a lot of the movie "River's Edge" (Keanu Reeves)
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Post by palta on May 8, 2023 18:41:29 GMT
i also went down the document rabbit hole because Serial left a lot of questions. having read a lot of the police notes, reports, and transcripts, it became obvious to me that Adnan did it because his girlfriend left him and he couldn't handle it. all he did after that was try to distance himself from it. he lied, he fabricated alibi letters, his mom and dad lied for him in court, he trashed talked his lawyer after she died. his testimony here (post conviction hearing 2012) regarding ineffective assistance of counsel was a very interesting read to me: www.adnansyedwiki.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/20121025-Day-2-Post-Conviction-Relief-Hearing-Transcript-OTH-BCCC-v2.pdfwhat most likely happened: he tried to use the alibi letters and his lawyer didn't buy it. and when she died, he tried to do it again (and failed miserably because it was a lie and his lawyer was right). he can't fool everybody all the time. his story changes depending on who is listening. when you get the full picture, you understand that he is trying to manipulate the listener. the thing is: some of those things are documented, like that he asked Hae for a ride on the day of the murder and talked to the police about it that afternoon because their friends heard him asked and everyone was looking for Hae.
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Post by charmedhour on Jun 28, 2023 17:35:44 GMT
The Prosecutors podcast just started what looks to be an 8 part dive into the case. Brett and Alice swore they would not cover this but changed their mind. Parts 1 & 2 are available as of today; they cover key players and the timeline.
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Post by notoriousmkg on Jun 28, 2023 17:52:15 GMT
The Prosecutors podcast just started what looks to be an 8 part dive into the case. Brett and Alice swore they would not cover this but changed their mind. Parts 1 & 2 are available as of today; they cover key players and the timeline. Thanks for the update! We were driving our kids by Syed's neighborhood last weekend on the way to a friend's 50th wedding anniversary, and I was telling them, "Hey, this is Adnan Syed's neighborhood." Our daughter replies, "Who???" It turns out she actually did know a little about the podcast. Our son? Nada.
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Post by palta on Jun 28, 2023 19:28:01 GMT
^lol i am not a fan of true crime but i got hooked with serial. sometimes my boyfriend sees me reading on the tablet and asks me 'what's new with Adnan?'.
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Post by charmedhour on Jul 12, 2023 19:37:48 GMT
^lol i am not a fan of true crime but i got hooked with serial. sometimes my boyfriend sees me reading on the tablet and asks me 'what's new with Adnan?'. The Prosecutors are about to release episode 5 on Annan. They are not a fan of Serial, at all and point out Serials distortion of events, timelines and the agenda.
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Post by palta on Jul 13, 2023 21:46:54 GMT
^i don't know them but i bookmarked it a few weeks ago to listen. i haven't found the right moment yet. thanks for the reminder!
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Post by charmedhour on Jul 14, 2023 13:11:55 GMT
^i don't know them but i bookmarked it a few weeks ago to listen. i haven't found the right moment yet. thanks for the reminder! You're welcome! The first 4 episodes is the timeline leading up to Hae's disapperance (hashing out who is who along the way). Episode 5 was Hae's body has been found but her car has not- a new timeline of who meets with police when, what they say, etc. They said yesterday it's shaping up to be at leasr 12 episodes. Each one is over an hour. ETA: Mo, the cell phone data has some issues that TPS discusss. Basically, old technology and nowhere near reliable or accurate as location pings and such are now.
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